This was posted on RedState. Worth reading.
The text of the letter, written by Redstate Contributor Hunter Baker, is below:
Dear Pastor Warren,
I am writing to you to express concern about something that may get lost when you host the candidate forum with John McCain and Barack Obama at Saddleback Valley Community Church which is likely to receive national attention. The decision to address you on this question in an open letter comes with some trepidation, but I have attempted to reach you through your media agency, the church email, and your personal email with no effect. I hope this message in a public forum will come to your attention instead of sitting unread in a pile of fan mail and requests for favors.
You see, I understand and appreciate who you are and what you’ve done. You are one of the most widely known pastors in the nation and have written one of the best-selling non-fiction books of the past several decades. I have many times walked into friends’ homes and have seen The Purpose-Driven Life sitting on coffee tables or bookshelves. When Time named you one of the most influential evangelicals in America, I agreed and applauded the selection.
During this period of well-deserved fame, you have been a good steward of the blessings God has provided. You gave away 90% of your massive royalties and repaid your church for years of salary. Instead of following the sometimes frivolous paths of other celebrity pastors, you focused in on the suffering of AIDS victims in Africa. You and your wife Kay have been outstanding role models. You have avoided making intemperate statements. Neither have you become some kind of caricature of the pastor in politics, ready to drop anything for a talking-heads appearance anywhere, anytime.
In your news release about the candidate forum, you suggest that you will avoid “gotcha” questions. The topics highlighted in the release are poverty, HIV/AIDS, climate and human rights with a special emphasis on character and leadership rather than programmatic details.
There is much to be said for rising above partisan politics. After all, the church is on a mission from God to all the earth. It is emphatically not intended to be a tool for either one of the political parties. We are after bigger game than a balanced budget, the right kind of welfare state, or term limits. We seek redemption for a world we believe has lost its way.
However, there are certain issues that demand the church’s involvement, issues of basic justice, issues of life and death. Perhaps the least ambiguous of those issues is the protection of babies throughout pregnancy and immediately after birth. We live in a culture that, strangely, acts as though unborn children are like genies that can be stuffed back into the bottle. We know that isn’t true. We know that abortions end with little piles of bloody flesh and bone. Fetuses don’t merely cease to exist. They experience violent physical death.
There are many doctrinal issues that divide Christians, but the protection of young life should not be one of them. Pastor Warren, as Protestants, we are part of a tradition that loves to point to the early church — the young church so pure in our estimation — still uncorrupted by the power of empire. That church, that persecuted church, was a tireless defender of life. Early Christians counseled against abortion and actively rescued infants exposed to the predators and the wild by Roman parents who vested few rights in human beings shortly after birth. A child of the wrong sex or one who looked weak could be abandoned. How strange it is that today a candidate claiming to be a Christian could oppose the Born Alive Infants Protection Act or a ban on partial birth abortion! To do so is to disclaim not only a major part of Christian teaching, but also a cultural advance in favor of protecting the weak and innocent.
Pastor, you know both John McCain and Barack Obama. You know where they stand on the protection of innocent human life. While it is a fine thing to allow both men to expound upon their experience, their leadership ability, and their attitudes toward challenges of the future like AIDS or climate change, I submit that you would do a disservice to your congregation and to the church at large if you host both candidates and ignore the issue that divides them more clearly than almost any other. Barack Obama has indicated a willingness to change his position on a number of issues, including drilling for oil, the way the Iraq war is conducted, and the proper understanding of gun ownership rights. But his position with regard to abortion rights is positively adamantine. Abortion on demand is non-negotiable. McCain, on the other hand, has consistently voted against a broad abortion license.
Some would respond to me, though I doubt you would, that I am emphasizing one issue unfairly. My answer is that this issue is basic. If the year were 1958, instead of 2008, do you think it would be right to host such a forum and ignore segregation, knowing one candidate was ardently in favor of the separation of the races? You and I both know that it would be wrong to gloss over a glaring breach of that kind. We both know many in the church were wrong in just that way. (It is a terrible irony of history that Mr. Obama now stands with those who favor the persistent removal of an entire class of human beings from legal protection through legal fiat. How I wish it were not so.)
My hope is that you will make no promise to leave the foundational issue of the sanctity of life untouched in this forum. If the lack of that promise means the forum may not take place, then I suggest it would be better to cancel it.
With respect,
Hunter Baker
Obama, contrary to his statements about not being a typical politician, is a cold an calculating politician who will do whatever he has to do to hide decisions from the public scrutiny. Read excerpts from Jill Stanek’s personal experience with Barack Obama.
We (I was part of the endeavor) expected Choose Life had been sent to Obama to kill. Obama was well-known as a liberal’s liberal. Just before the hearing, ABC News reported Obama considered Choose Life “contentious.”
Obama was only echoing Illinois pro-abortion groups. According to news accounts, NARAL’s legal director labeled Choose Life “aggressive propaganda,” and the vice president of the Illinois National Organization for Women called it “a violation of free speech.”
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There was standing room only inside the hearing, and one could barely get through the crowd milling outside in the hall.
Obama opened the hearing and proceeded to call his own bills and those of friends. An hour passed. I grew impatient and embarrassed at Obama’s disrespect of the Willises.
Then, abruptly, Obama surprised everyone by canceling the hearing early to attend a Democrat caucus, he said.
Obama apologized to those he said had traveled long distances to testify, i.e., the Willises, but the meeting would have to reconvene the next day.
Obama knew exactly what he was doing. He knew Chicago reporters would not spend the night, nor would the crowd. He didn’t want cameras around to sympathize with the Willises and badger him about the demise of Choose Life at his hand.
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Obama’s fanatical support of abortion extends not only to opposing legislation to save abortion survivors but also to opposing legislation to help mothers and families in need cover adoption expenses.
It makes sense that Obama doesn’t want anyone to choose life. In the video below he explains why he wouldn’t want to punish his daughter with a baby.
In what is becoming more and more frequent, people are being arrested for exercising their free speech rights to protest. This time Pro-Lifers were arrested in Maryland while peacefully demonstrating that abortion is murder. It is becoming clear that our morality has decayed to where truth is now regulated speech and murder of the unborn is accepted and protected.
Eighteen pro-lifers participating in the MD Face the Truth Tour were arrested without warning by Hartford County State Troopers in the city of Bel Air, MD on… August 1…. It was during the last tour stop of the week-long event, sponsored by Defend Life when a State Trooper named Bradley approached the group and told them to move and put away their signs or they would be arrested. In an effort to comply, group leader Jack Ames gathered the group and moved down the road, into the city limits of Bel Air…. The group stood peacefully on public property and did not “march” into the street as one news organization erroneously reported. Without warning, an estimated 20 patrol cars arrived on the scene and began arresting pro-life participants without a word. Those arrested were not told what they were being charged with, nor were they read their rights. One of the women who participated in the tour overheard a police radio conversation where an unknown person told the troopers to make the arrests and that they would “figure out later” what charges would be filed…. Two minors in the group were soon released, but the adults were held overnight…. The last of the pro-lifers were released… August 2, at about 10:45 AM. The group was eventually charged with loitering, failure to obey a lawful order, and disorderly conduct.
Here’s my letter to them back in June.
Dear Sir(s);
This is very, very wrong and until the Hilton Hotels cleans up their act, we are choosing to seek other accommodations when traveling. Not because an action group is against it, but because it happened to us, your long time customer!
I have always sought out finding a Hampton Inn when traveling around the country. I have always had good service and a pleasant stay at your hotels. I have since realized that Hampton Inns are owned by Hilton Hotels, but not before I made two reservations for this month. (I had heard that problems like mine have happened before in Hilton Hotels.) This weekend I stayed for my first reservation in Naperville, IL. If I wasn’t in charge of my elderly Mother in an enjoining room, and that are blocked off for my niece’s wedding, I would cancel my upcoming reservations. Here’s why.
While relaxing in our room after a long conference, we were flipping through channels on TV. With my children watching, I came to a channel that had the full width and length of the screen, a woman’s torso. She was naked. From the glimpse that we got before the TV permanently went off for the rest of our stay, this was not a fuzzy scene or shot from a movie. It was a blatant shot in an X-rated adult show or program. I do not know if it was on HBO or another type of channel like that, though.
I know that you have gotten emails before about this kind of content being shown in your hotels, but this was very personal to me. My wish is for you not to have this programming at all offered in your “family” hotels but I realize that you feel you are providing a service for those who want it. Here is my dilemma, why is the programming tuned into those programs per entering the room? If you KNOW that a channel has a propensity for having these kinds of adult programs, then you should make it available only for those who request it at the desk. I don’t understand how a quest has to get a special code at the desk to have internet access, but they are free to watch pornographic sites on your TVs!
I am still waiting for a response back from them and you can see what the date is.
As I said, I had to stay at a Hampton Inn for a wedding. I asked them to turn off the pornographic channel and they said that they couldn’t. It was HBO and they couldn’t turn off that channel. So we elected to keep it off. We haven’t stayed at one since or any other Hilton affiliate.
The Voice of the Martyrs is giving away free Olympic Prayer Bands to help you remember to pray for the persecuted Christians in China during the Olympics. I encourage every Christian to order theirs today at Voice of the Martyrs. We need to pray for the underground church in China to be protected from the daily persecution of the Chinese Government.
Remember my… was it my second post? Remember when I told you about animal marriage? Well, here ’s the other facet of it.
The British Parliament has approved a bill that legalizes research combining human and animal embryos.
Here’s the story at One News Now .According to Dr. David Stevens of the Christian Medical Association I quote him saying,
“Scientists combining human DNA and animal DNA is grossly unethical. It blurs the line between humans and animals. It blurs male and female, parent and child. It’s an assault on human dignity and the integrity of the human species,” Stevens contends.
According to Stevens, there is also a huge moral question, which many scientists are apparently ignoring. “It takes away from the uniqueness of human beings and the fact that we are made in God’s image. It crosses a moral divide in medicine, from which it’s going to be very difficult to step back … in the years to come,” Stevens explains.
I agree! To me they are trying to play God. We are not mammals, birds, fish, or plants to be hybrid. Some people that believe in evolution, don’t believe that man has a unique significance unlike any other species in this universe.
Psalm 139:14 says,
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
Genesis 1:26 says,
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
I’m not sure what God will make of this. He may allow it to happen because the Anti-christ is supposed to be a beast. Does that mean literally?
I know what Genesis 1:28 says,
“God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
If man were meant to be hybrid with animals, why would he commanded this of Adam and Eve?
Here’s what else Steven’s said that bares much weight.
“Creating the embryos opens the possibility of increasing the virulence of certain viral and bacterial diseases as you combine animal and human cellular material into the same cell,” he explains. “We don’t know what the effect’s going to be. One scientist said it’s like children playing with land mines. We don’t know what this technology is going to do to human beings.”
For ages, there is talk that AIDS was cause with humans mating with monkeys. Which blows the whole evolution theory out of the water too. Only like animals can produce other like animals. Why isn’t there a monkey-man? Where is that “missing link”? If they were roaming the earth, we should find evidence of that by now. But yet… it hasn’t been found.
Well, I don’t go to Starbucks. I have probably went two times in my life and I got smoothies. The problem? I don’t drink coffee. (Gasp!!!)
Say what you must but I have never liked the taste of that bitter stuff. It isn’t though I haven’t been exposed to it because my Mom drank like, thirty cups a day!!! I really doesn’t matter what I put in it either… I just don’t like it.
But, I will say, I get my jolt from an occasional Dr. Pepper in the morning, so I guess you would say that is my cup of “joe”.
Anyway… my honey saw this article on the internet and wondered if I wanted to write about it.
The problem, in case you don’t want to read it too much, is that Starbucks changed their logo on their coffee cups to this bare breasted woman with a crown on her head, and her fish bottom body with her legs spread open.
I read it and thought, well, I need to call the company and check it out. I mean it looked like an ugly drawing, to say the least, and certainly not impressive enough for a big company like Starbucks! When I reached the person on the other line, I asked him if they had changed their logo to a naked lady. With the ease of knowing all about calls like these, he said yes but that it was temporary. I asked him why they changed their logo. He said that the company owner decided to change it to show people that Starbucks was going to get back to their business roots. That it was the original logo back in 1972. I asked since it is temporary, when does it get changed back? The company didn’t have a specific date but it would be sometime in July. I asked him if he had any other comments about it because I was thinking that I would write about here and he said that I would have to talk to the press department about it. I declined to talk to them because I felt I got enough information.
Okay dokay… I was left with thinking, why would they feel that this was a “good” way to show people that they were getting back to their roots? Why was it only temporary if they wanted to show this? What other reasons did they have for doing this.
This is what I think.
I think that this is a tread in our country now. Have you ever heard of “Bad publicity, is still publicity?” I think that this is precisely why some companies dive into questionable material, advertising, and sponsorships. In my mind, here’s what happens.
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The company wants to have more money or they get an activist in the corporate office.
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They decide that questionable marketing gets a quick, cheap response. After all, the media gets involved and it is free advertising.
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They implement the plan and watch the newspapers, internet, and newscasts.
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They send out a memo to their PR people to make such and such statements.
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They start to get email and phone calls telling them to pull their campaign, advertisement, commercials.
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They have the CEO make a statement to the press.
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They still don’t pull it and now they are getting support and complaints.
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They milk it for as long as possible until they either figure out that it is helping or hindering their sales.
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If they are lucky, they will have groups boycotting their product and get more empathy from groups that vow to shop wit them because they took this stand.
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Things start to turn against them and sales are just starting to decrease.
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They repent. The boycott is called off, their sales pick up and they are the good guys and everyone is encouraged to show them their support for doing the right thing.
Now do you feel used or played?
As I said, this is my theory but I think in a lot of cases right now, I am spot on!
Does this mean that you shouldn’t call, email or boycott? No! By all means, let them have it. In the end, you do what is right before your Lord. Let the Lord take care of them. They will get found out eventually.
What do you think?
Bible verses that fit this.
Proverbs 24:8, Proverbs 24:20, Proverbs 28:10, Matthew 12:35
Do you have more verses that would fit this situation? I bet you do!
Wow! What a surprising subject to write on now a days. By now, you are probably just sick of hearing about the election. I don’t blame you. I’m kind of sick too.
I’m sick of what the so called conservative party is telling me “this” is the man for me. I have news… he does not share my views and right now, I’m considering not voting at all! Thanks to Jill Stanek’s report for archiving a debate with Alan Keys, George Bush and John McCain. If you feel the way I do about abortion, how do you feel when you listen to this? Then look at this. McCain, seems to be a flip flopper. I can’t name all the friends that I have talked to that have no idea who to vote for, even before the primaries. With the memory of Ross Perot in mind, it becomes a choice of not voting for the so called conservative person and allowing the liberal party to take over, or voting for this person because he is the best of horrible choices in 2008. Is this the time for a third party? Can that work?
I think that the conservative party is pushing us fundamental Christians away. Year after year, they seem to be backing the candidates that are moderate to liberal. I even feel that some of the big non-denominational churches are rolling over to the somewhat social conservative and physically liberal.
So the question still remains. Do I settle or do I vote (or not vote) on principle?
A few days ago, I got the confirmation that there is a man out there that shares a lot of my views. His name is Bob Barr.
We lived in Georgia for about 5 years and Bob Barr was in office then. I thought I could really back this guy! He is socially and fiscally conservative. Please google his name to find out other things about him. Like Bob Barr Christian, Bob Barr impeachment, Bob Barr wives, Bob Barr abortion, and Bob Barr marriage. You might be surprised what you find.
I find myself wondering if the third big party is going to end up being the Libertarian Party. I know a lot of conservatives that are making the switch and ones that are closely looking at this party to decide if this might fit their views better.
This article would be one of my problems with them.
“We won’t demand laws or restrictions on other people who we may not agree because of personal actions or lifestyles. Think of us as a group of people with a “live and let live” mentality and a balanced checkbook.”
Hmmm… you had me until there. I wonder how abortion fits into this and I am really for one man, one woman and I think that unless they have something written into the law on this one, our country may see consequences that they never thought of when allowing these “different lifestyles” to be legally married. I’m not just talking fire and brimstone here. Things like over the top insurance benefits, marrying animals, marrying dead people, etc.
So, here I am again. Who in the world am I going to vote for? Am I voting party, or principle? Who is the closest to my beliefs? Do I pick and chose what issues are the most important to me and overlook the rest? Do I just not vote and let things happen to the country that maybe need to happen for God’s greater purpose? WHAT is God’s greater purpose?
What are you going to do and why?
Some follow up verses: 1 Peter 3:14, 1 John 3:7
I admit it. I’m an American Idol junky. I started watching when Mandisa was on. What season was that? I’m not sure why I watched it for the first time but I was hooked. I think it was because I could appreciate the singers and what they had to go through, being a singer myself. I remember seeing Mandisa and thinking, “Here is this big beautiful Christian woman on American Idol and she can sing like no one I have ever heard.” Everything she was given (including the country week song that eventually was her falling), was sung with a clear, perfectly pitched tone. She was voted off and I was very sad. But I kept watching. Elliot was my guy after Mandisa. But UGH… I was so disgusted by that season’s outcome, that I thought that this had to all be a farce.
Next season came and I watched. Chris Sligh!!! Another Christian Singer. Truthfully… not Mandisa but I was still cheering for him never-the-less. He was the only contestant that I ever voted for. I even got on the American Idol website and went into the chat rooms. (I know, I know) I actually learned a lot about him from there. I thought he was humorous, Christian, big guy, Christian, pretty good singer, Christian, and a really nice guy! Did I say he was a Christian too? Oh, I guess I did. He got voted off and I quit watching American Idol. By then, my family was hooked and still watching but I… would conveniently do something else during that time. My family asked, when they saw the previews for the next season’s idol, if I was going to watch it. I said yes. I was looking for that next Christian to root for. This season is different for me though. I saw some of them singing Christian songs, (HEY! Did you see when they sang Shout to the Lord?) but I just wasn’t fully aware or something! I listened to their voices and I judged them according to what I heard. (Honestly, I was definitely hoping that some of them were NOT going to be the next American Idol) I wondered why I was not concerned with the Christian winning this year.
My answer is… Hollywood. Though there are Christians out there, (Kirk Cameron to name one) it’s a mess! I mean, that is what Kirk is doing now. He is out there witnessing to Hollywood. I think that you have to be pretty planted in The Word and the Lord to live in all of that. It seems that fame and money changes a person. (Big surprise!) I think that there is a lot of compromise. It messes up a majority of the young people that go there. So I wonder when a Christian goes to a place like American Idol, are they naïve in thinking that things won’t change for them? I wonder. Or do they think that they will be a witness to them?
Remember Carrie Underwood? Is she a Christian? According to this article, she says that she is. I’ve not doubt that it is true but she seems to have made some compromises.
I wish she would have stuck to Jesus Take the Wheel. Is she the worst example, nah, but you get the idea.
It looks like Jordan Sparks is doing a good job of keeping morals so far. She looks like she is just singing about romance. Like every other teenager in America. No nudity, heavy kissing or anything else of the kind. Good for her. I hope she can keep it up!
A bit off topic but speaking of teenagers. Miley Cyrus. She is convinced that she will not become another Brittney and others. See her interview with Barbara Walters.
I hope not but than there are those pictures, for the sake of “Art”. Compromise. Ahhhh… those Wonderful World of Disney, kids. Sorry, Miley. Why are you so embarrassed if you didn’t have anything to be ashamed about? Why even put yourself in that situation? Did you think the photos you posed for wouldn’t resurface? Okay, so in conclusion, if my daughter wanted to become an American Idol (or Disney kid), what would I do? Good question. Under 18, I wouldn’t let her. Does that sound too harsh? Nah… I’m just doing my job. After 18… I would do a lot of praying and cling to the verse that says, “Train up a child in the way she should go, so when she grows old, she will not depart from it.” Proverbs 22:6
What would you do? Do you think that a Christian should watch a show that is called American IDOL?
Additional verses that I would put with this article are Luke 18:25, Job 16:18-19, Luke 12:15, Exodus 20:4.
I think blogs should be easy to read and understand. If you’re looking for eloquence… you probably aren’t going to find that here. I’m just a simple person, wanting to chat with you about things that go on around our country and around the world. Specifically, our (drum roll, please)… “Decaying Morals”. Right now you are probably saying… a Christian… got them pegged. No surprises here! YEP!
In this blog I’d like to talk about issues that have gotten us to this point, what is happening now to make it worse, and what we can do about it. Or maybe even if we should do anything about it! We’ll have some questions, some answers, and questions without answers. Should we use the Bible? Most certainly!
Oh… just in case you are wondering, I don’t have all the answers. This is not a teacher student kind of thing. One the contrary, I think I have more questions sometimes than answers. I want to know what you think about some of these things too! I look forward to hearing from you.
Okay, here are the rules.
- No swearing.
- No name calling.
- Please don’t get us messed up with copy rights. Mostly, be careful not to copy whole articles. Bits and pieces are okay.
- When at all possible, quote what a person said. Otherwise make sure you put down that you are not quoting them.
- Nothing pornographic.
- I reserve the right to pull comments that I feel are inappropriate. This will be in extreme cases.
- If I have warned you to clean it up twice, like baseball, you’re out on three. (I’m so mean!)
- No spamming or trying to sell something. I will have things in place but it may not catch everything.
- If you are a kid, check with your guardian to see if you can be on here.
- Be honest but not cruel.
- Don’t give out your real name. I’ll protect you as far as I can, but if the law steps in and calls for your IP addresses, I will have to do it.
- I’m not sure what should be twelve but it seemed like I should have twelve rules. Eleven is just too weird. Maybe I’ll fill this in with something later.
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